I keep reading the internet every so often to see if anyone else has tried this. There is a lot of theory, some strange ideas and some people who 'claim' to have an idea that works.
But, I have already made a windmill from a common AC motor years ago and it is still up in the air producing power. Read the article here: http://www.thediyworld.com/DIY-Windmill ... -Plans.php
Simply take any old AC motor, add magnets to the rotor, put it in the wind and you have power. A fan motor, no matter if its a box fan, table fan or a huge gigantic barn fan, will work perfectly well for this.
Take any AC motor with fan blades on it. Take it apart. Drill holes in the rotor. Add magnets. Put it back together and you have a wind turbine.
The bigger the motor and the bigger the magnets, the more energy output.
Thats it.
If you have questions, please reply to this post and I will be happy to help you.
AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Hi techman,
Thanks for taking the time to run this website and posting/recording all the helpful info. It's great to see other individuals who share similar interests and goals when it comes to harnessing clean, natural energy.
Okay, speech done, now let's get to the meat!
I am using PC cooling fans (40 wired together in parallel on a simple frame) as a sort of mini turbine.
With a 25mph wind (tested by driving in a car) the 'rack' generates 80 volts. After a number of different tests I have determined - Higher speed = higher volts; more fans = more volts. That part is (or at least to my untrained brain, seems) simple. Theoretically, I can generate as many volts as I want.
The difficulty I am having is in generating amps.
That's how/why I came upon your youtube video about using a bike and a treadmill motor in a DIY generator. I'm pretty sure there are some fundamentals I am missing. I expect it has everything (or at least something) to do with either:
the size of the wires coming from the fans
the size of the coils/magnets in the fans (I'm assuming there are coils & magnets)
the third thing of which I have no idea ;p
[[I had a 'brilliant' idea one day, but am very new to all this. I am learning as I go, so please excuse my noobishness.]]
My current setup does spin my 300watt motor, but I have no tool to measure at what rpm or at what % of max power. A battery is required for the initial kick to start the motor but at speed I can switch to just the fans and the motor continues to run.
The goal is to get to the point where the fans run a 500watt motor at full speed.
Okay, so that's a mouthful for a first post, I know. But I do still have one more question. Let's call it Question B. And it ties it with your treadmill generator. Is there a 'rule of thumb' for - if I am generating 48volts steady, how long will it take to recharge a car battery - AND - how much juice does an EV battery [set of batteries] use w/ example variables of 65mph for 30 miles?
Does the question even make sense? I do realize the variables are about as endless as the items at an endless salad bar, but I hope you can catch my drift and share some pointers.
Michael
Thanks for taking the time to run this website and posting/recording all the helpful info. It's great to see other individuals who share similar interests and goals when it comes to harnessing clean, natural energy.
Okay, speech done, now let's get to the meat!
I am using PC cooling fans (40 wired together in parallel on a simple frame) as a sort of mini turbine.
With a 25mph wind (tested by driving in a car) the 'rack' generates 80 volts. After a number of different tests I have determined - Higher speed = higher volts; more fans = more volts. That part is (or at least to my untrained brain, seems) simple. Theoretically, I can generate as many volts as I want.
The difficulty I am having is in generating amps.
That's how/why I came upon your youtube video about using a bike and a treadmill motor in a DIY generator. I'm pretty sure there are some fundamentals I am missing. I expect it has everything (or at least something) to do with either:
the size of the wires coming from the fans
the size of the coils/magnets in the fans (I'm assuming there are coils & magnets)
the third thing of which I have no idea ;p
[[I had a 'brilliant' idea one day, but am very new to all this. I am learning as I go, so please excuse my noobishness.]]
My current setup does spin my 300watt motor, but I have no tool to measure at what rpm or at what % of max power. A battery is required for the initial kick to start the motor but at speed I can switch to just the fans and the motor continues to run.
The goal is to get to the point where the fans run a 500watt motor at full speed.
Okay, so that's a mouthful for a first post, I know. But I do still have one more question. Let's call it Question B. And it ties it with your treadmill generator. Is there a 'rule of thumb' for - if I am generating 48volts steady, how long will it take to recharge a car battery - AND - how much juice does an EV battery [set of batteries] use w/ example variables of 65mph for 30 miles?
Does the question even make sense? I do realize the variables are about as endless as the items at an endless salad bar, but I hope you can catch my drift and share some pointers.
Michael
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Wow!! Did I read that right? 40 fans?
Please post a photo here for me to see that monster. Impressive.
You will hit a limit in the amount of voltage the fans can generate. The voltage and current are regulated by the magnet and coil sizes in the fans.
You can increase current by wiring some of your fans in parallel with the rest in series, say half/half.
But it is already impressive if you are running a 300 watt motor off the fans alone. You are on to something here. Please also post more details and photos of the motor you are using, and, if you can, your car driving setup.
I cannot say how long it takes to charge batteries because there are too many variables. You need an amp meter (off ebay for about $7 - 9) and a shunt to hook it up to (also on ebay). With this you can measure the exact current out of your fans.
Hook up the amp meter in between the output of the fans and a battery to be charged. Read the current out and thats your answer.
Then it depends on the size of the batteries. Lets say you have a 100 amp/hour battery. You can charge it up at 1 amp for 100 hours or 20 amps for 5 hours.
Please do send me more info. This is very interesting.
Please post a photo here for me to see that monster. Impressive.
You will hit a limit in the amount of voltage the fans can generate. The voltage and current are regulated by the magnet and coil sizes in the fans.
You can increase current by wiring some of your fans in parallel with the rest in series, say half/half.
But it is already impressive if you are running a 300 watt motor off the fans alone. You are on to something here. Please also post more details and photos of the motor you are using, and, if you can, your car driving setup.
I cannot say how long it takes to charge batteries because there are too many variables. You need an amp meter (off ebay for about $7 - 9) and a shunt to hook it up to (also on ebay). With this you can measure the exact current out of your fans.
Hook up the amp meter in between the output of the fans and a battery to be charged. Read the current out and thats your answer.
Then it depends on the size of the batteries. Lets say you have a 100 amp/hour battery. You can charge it up at 1 amp for 100 hours or 20 amps for 5 hours.
Please do send me more info. This is very interesting.
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Dude Seriously, post some pics and specs... I'd love to see and try this. 
Wright, yes... that's my name.
Wright, yes... that's my name.
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Hi techman (and all),
Thanks for the reply! Good stuff.
So, remember when I wrote, "A battery is required for the initial kick to start the motor", well, that's just not true any longer. The day I wrote the post I ran (yet) another test based on my gut (not very 'engineery') and lo and behold got the rack to run the motor from a dead start - without any battery at all!
Pretty cool. And one more big step to the finish line.
So, that's the update, now back to your reply...I'm not posting pics yet because I only have a PPA (patent pending) and there is no international protection. My #1 paranoia about this project (thanks to flicks like Tucker) is that some corporation will steal the idea and lock it away. Some corporation that has a bit more (written sarcastically) access to $$$, lawyers and engineers than I do ;p
((Hopefully, they are too lazy to read what I write below ;p ))
I do, however, invite you to visit me in sunny, warm Florida (I saw a post/video you mentioned it being cold where you are) where I will show you the device first hand. Seriously. I would love for it to have a good going over from someone with greater knowledge and experience.
As for my 'car driving setup', it's me sticking out of the sunroof of my Accord, braced against 30-45mph winds while my wife drives along a mile long stretch of seldom used road. My wind tunnel. The meters, battery, motor and switch are all inside where I can see them and she can control them. Once we had to swerve (killing my back) because two deer decided to leap across the road!
I have been going at this beast for a few months now. The next step is to add an additional rack I built - 99 40mm fans all hooked in series.
My question now is: is there a proper order to arrange/hook the additional wires into the mix for maximum power?
Here's what I mean; I only ever find Series & Parallel diagrams that show 4 batteries, never 6 or 10 or 200. The one rack is all Parallel. This additional rack will be all Series. They are on separate frames (that will be bolted side by side to avoid having them smash me in the head at 40mph!). The only place their wires will cross is at the final two wires that lead to the switch. So, Series onto Parallel and THEN output wire, Series onto output in front of Parallel, or mash Series and Parallel together onto output wire and don't sweat it?
My next test run is Saturday. If I do not get the desired result I will rewire the 99 fan rack to be Series & Parallel itself and retest. And for that I have another Q. Again, because I only ever see diagrams of 4... the rack is 11 rows of 9, I am assuming I need only run Parallel through the outer fans and hook each center 7 in Series (sort of an 'outer columns and inner rows' setup). Sound right?
Seriously, if you want to warm up and help me change the world, I would welcome the first hand input.
Finally - I looked into shunts (another 'new' to me), thanks for that. In your bike gen. video you mentioned something about a charge controller inside the camper. Please give me more info on that device, because I'm thinking somewhere along this path I may need one.
Michael
Thanks for the reply! Good stuff.
So, remember when I wrote, "A battery is required for the initial kick to start the motor", well, that's just not true any longer. The day I wrote the post I ran (yet) another test based on my gut (not very 'engineery') and lo and behold got the rack to run the motor from a dead start - without any battery at all!
Pretty cool. And one more big step to the finish line.
So, that's the update, now back to your reply...I'm not posting pics yet because I only have a PPA (patent pending) and there is no international protection. My #1 paranoia about this project (thanks to flicks like Tucker) is that some corporation will steal the idea and lock it away. Some corporation that has a bit more (written sarcastically) access to $$$, lawyers and engineers than I do ;p
((Hopefully, they are too lazy to read what I write below ;p ))
I do, however, invite you to visit me in sunny, warm Florida (I saw a post/video you mentioned it being cold where you are) where I will show you the device first hand. Seriously. I would love for it to have a good going over from someone with greater knowledge and experience.
As for my 'car driving setup', it's me sticking out of the sunroof of my Accord, braced against 30-45mph winds while my wife drives along a mile long stretch of seldom used road. My wind tunnel. The meters, battery, motor and switch are all inside where I can see them and she can control them. Once we had to swerve (killing my back) because two deer decided to leap across the road!
I have been going at this beast for a few months now. The next step is to add an additional rack I built - 99 40mm fans all hooked in series.
My question now is: is there a proper order to arrange/hook the additional wires into the mix for maximum power?
Here's what I mean; I only ever find Series & Parallel diagrams that show 4 batteries, never 6 or 10 or 200. The one rack is all Parallel. This additional rack will be all Series. They are on separate frames (that will be bolted side by side to avoid having them smash me in the head at 40mph!). The only place their wires will cross is at the final two wires that lead to the switch. So, Series onto Parallel and THEN output wire, Series onto output in front of Parallel, or mash Series and Parallel together onto output wire and don't sweat it?
My next test run is Saturday. If I do not get the desired result I will rewire the 99 fan rack to be Series & Parallel itself and retest. And for that I have another Q. Again, because I only ever see diagrams of 4... the rack is 11 rows of 9, I am assuming I need only run Parallel through the outer fans and hook each center 7 in Series (sort of an 'outer columns and inner rows' setup). Sound right?
Seriously, if you want to warm up and help me change the world, I would welcome the first hand input.
Finally - I looked into shunts (another 'new' to me), thanks for that. In your bike gen. video you mentioned something about a charge controller inside the camper. Please give me more info on that device, because I'm thinking somewhere along this path I may need one.
Michael
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Ok, I understand your fear of copyright problems. I had a patent on the worlds first water cooling system for computers. Guess what. Its all over the place now. I did not have the financial backing to fight the legal battles.
First point. Batteries are normally paired in 2,4,8, or whatever. You could have ten or 20 or whatever. Keep them all series or all parallel.
I laughed when you mentioned the deer. I can actually picture that.
I am not sure what voltage, current you want to obtain.
If you want to charge 12 volt batteries, then you need about 14.5 volts out of the system.
I am using a solar charge controller to regulate the power from solar panels to the batteries. What you want though is a wind charge controller off ebay. Better is an MPPT wind charge controller for best energy transfer to the batteries.
Here is an example of a theoretical series/parallel combination of fans to charge a battery or run a motor.
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Group A Group B Group C
Lets say each group, A, B and C all put out about 10 volts and 1 amp of power. If you wire these up in parallel, taking plus to plus and minus to minus, you increase overall amps output to 3 volts while keeping the 10 volts.
If you run them in series, you increase the voltage to 30 volts but keep the 1 amp current.
Hope this helps some. It is hard to do this theoretically, but I will try.
I would love a trip to Florida, but it would have to wait for next month. I have a huge Easter get together in two weeks I am saving for.
If that is fine, let me know. Also what airport are you closest to? How far away? Can you pick me up if I were to fly in?
Troy
First point. Batteries are normally paired in 2,4,8, or whatever. You could have ten or 20 or whatever. Keep them all series or all parallel.
I laughed when you mentioned the deer. I can actually picture that.
I am not sure what voltage, current you want to obtain.
If you want to charge 12 volt batteries, then you need about 14.5 volts out of the system.
I am using a solar charge controller to regulate the power from solar panels to the batteries. What you want though is a wind charge controller off ebay. Better is an MPPT wind charge controller for best energy transfer to the batteries.
Here is an example of a theoretical series/parallel combination of fans to charge a battery or run a motor.
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Group A Group B Group C
Lets say each group, A, B and C all put out about 10 volts and 1 amp of power. If you wire these up in parallel, taking plus to plus and minus to minus, you increase overall amps output to 3 volts while keeping the 10 volts.
If you run them in series, you increase the voltage to 30 volts but keep the 1 amp current.
Hope this helps some. It is hard to do this theoretically, but I will try.
I would love a trip to Florida, but it would have to wait for next month. I have a huge Easter get together in two weeks I am saving for.
If that is fine, let me know. Also what airport are you closest to? How far away? Can you pick me up if I were to fly in?
Troy
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Troy,
Orlando International, OIA. Yes, I'd pick you up - and lunches are on me, natch! I can also suggest hotels based on your budget. Next month is fine. I'm sure to still have loads of Qs then. And it will be even warmer ;p
Sucks about your patent! Makes me wonder if you did anything with Cray back in the day. I'll never forget the first time I saw one of those with bubbles rising up the faceplate. Awesome. I never lusted for a machine until that moment. Nowadays I can probably get one on ebay for $1.
So, OIA, no need for rental car or taxi, free lunches as your per diem and at least one dinner. When can we expect you?
Michael
Orlando International, OIA. Yes, I'd pick you up - and lunches are on me, natch! I can also suggest hotels based on your budget. Next month is fine. I'm sure to still have loads of Qs then. And it will be even warmer ;p
Sucks about your patent! Makes me wonder if you did anything with Cray back in the day. I'll never forget the first time I saw one of those with bubbles rising up the faceplate. Awesome. I never lusted for a machine until that moment. Nowadays I can probably get one on ebay for $1.
So, OIA, no need for rental car or taxi, free lunches as your per diem and at least one dinner. When can we expect you?
Michael
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
Now, back to the topic...
"I am not sure what voltage, current you want to obtain."
A full 300 watts, for now. 500 watts is the next milestone.
"If you want to charge 12 volt batteries, then you need about 14.5 volts out of the system."
My rack generates 40+ volts easily. So, in theory, shouldn't that charge approximately 3 times faster?
In some ways (this being a work in progress) I am looking to charge one battery while using another. [[This is where it gets complex (to me) and is truthfully an offshoot of my main project.]] So, in theory, if I'm pulling x# volts out, don't I "only" need to supply x+1# volts in to stay ahead?
I'm sure it's going to require a lot of trial and error (and deer dodging) but it'd be nice if there were a (simple) rule of thumb that would at least tell me (for example) - focus on volts instead of amps, etc.
Make any sense?
Michael
"I am not sure what voltage, current you want to obtain."
A full 300 watts, for now. 500 watts is the next milestone.
"If you want to charge 12 volt batteries, then you need about 14.5 volts out of the system."
My rack generates 40+ volts easily. So, in theory, shouldn't that charge approximately 3 times faster?
In some ways (this being a work in progress) I am looking to charge one battery while using another. [[This is where it gets complex (to me) and is truthfully an offshoot of my main project.]] So, in theory, if I'm pulling x# volts out, don't I "only" need to supply x+1# volts in to stay ahead?
I'm sure it's going to require a lot of trial and error (and deer dodging) but it'd be nice if there were a (simple) rule of thumb that would at least tell me (for example) - focus on volts instead of amps, etc.
Make any sense?
Michael
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
The trip to Florida sounds good. I need to check my finances and flights before I commit tho.
If you are putting out over 40 volts, then you can reduce the fans to smaller groups. You want 14 - 18 volts for a 12 volt battery.
No - higher voltages will not charge faster. Rather, you may hurt the battery, but at best you are loosing a ton of charging capacity.
It is better to rig up your fans, as I said, in groups of 14 - 18 volts.
Or, you can get a special wind turbine charge controller off ebay. You need a MPPT version to match the voltage of your generator setup to the voltage of the batteries, while getting the best possible charging current into the batteries.
You should not be charging the same battery you are using to run things. Rather use one battery bank to power devices and another battery bank to be charged. Swap out as needed.
Hope that is easy to understand.
If you are putting out over 40 volts, then you can reduce the fans to smaller groups. You want 14 - 18 volts for a 12 volt battery.
No - higher voltages will not charge faster. Rather, you may hurt the battery, but at best you are loosing a ton of charging capacity.
It is better to rig up your fans, as I said, in groups of 14 - 18 volts.
Or, you can get a special wind turbine charge controller off ebay. You need a MPPT version to match the voltage of your generator setup to the voltage of the batteries, while getting the best possible charging current into the batteries.
You should not be charging the same battery you are using to run things. Rather use one battery bank to power devices and another battery bank to be charged. Swap out as needed.
Hope that is easy to understand.
Re: AC motor used as wind turbine - YES it is easy and works
As I finished my reply and prepped to Copy/Paste, I realized one more thing. Charging the battery [rank] is not my primary intention. Fully powering the 300w motor is my current goal. I wonder if that affects the utility of MPPT.
Anyway, my reply:
1.
Okay, I looked into MPPT, mostly on solar sites, and found this bit that seems pretty clear to me - IF I am actually understanding it:
#######
[from http://www.windsun.com/ChargeControls/MPPT.htm]
Maximum Power Point Tracking is electronic tracking - usually digital. The charge controller looks at the output of the panels, and compares it to the battery voltage. It then figures out what is the best power that the panel can put out to charge the battery. It takes this and converts it to best voltage to get maximum AMPS into the battery. (Remember, it is Amps into the battery that counts).
...
Here is where maximum power point tracking comes in. Assume your battery is low, at 12 volts. A MPPT takes that 17.6 volts at 7.4 amps and converts it down, so that what the battery gets is now 10.8 amps at 12 volts. Now you still have almost 130 watts, and everyone is happy.
Ideally, for 100% power conversion you would get around 11.3 amps at 11.5 volts, but you have to feed the battery a higher voltage to force the amps in. And this is a simplified explanation - in actual fact the output of the MPPT charge controller might vary continually to adjust for getting the maximum amps into the battery.
######
So, does that mean this type of charger can 'convert' my volts into amps? That doesn't sound right, but then again, this is new to me and anything more advanced than elementary basics is above my pay grade. But if that IS the case then it does sound like exactly what I need.
btw, I popped in at ebay and under Wind Charge Controller I found far more than one flavor of cheese and quickly became overwhelmed. I may even have uttered an expletive that rhymes with bit. Troy, if these turn out to be the way to go, I may need a tad o' guidance.
2.
"at best you are loosing a ton of charging capacity."
How do I make use of it, rather than reduce it? Can't bottle it. Will the above MPPT take my 40++ and be able to use all of it? I'd hate to be able to generate that much [and far more] and not be able to turn it into useful energy.
[again, the current primary goal is to crank a 300w motor rather than charge a battery]
3.
"use one battery bank to power devices and another battery bank to be charged. Swap out as needed."
Actually, at a certain point [read as - once there is enough $$$ raised] I intend/hope to introduce a computerized switcher that should do just that.
[again, may no longer be needed. Initially I needed the battery to kick start the motor and then switch to fans, but on my latest run the energy from the fans was sufficient to provide the kick.]
Thanks for all the input. Like I said, 'nother test tomorrow, but now you've got me thinking I'm doing overkill, but also excited that MPPT might get me right where I wish to be! And that, my kind sir, is EXACTLY why I invite you down to give this thing the evil eye.
Actually, it might not be a bad idea to pass some info 'off-forum'.
Michael
Anyway, my reply:
1.
Okay, I looked into MPPT, mostly on solar sites, and found this bit that seems pretty clear to me - IF I am actually understanding it:
#######
[from http://www.windsun.com/ChargeControls/MPPT.htm]
Maximum Power Point Tracking is electronic tracking - usually digital. The charge controller looks at the output of the panels, and compares it to the battery voltage. It then figures out what is the best power that the panel can put out to charge the battery. It takes this and converts it to best voltage to get maximum AMPS into the battery. (Remember, it is Amps into the battery that counts).
...
Here is where maximum power point tracking comes in. Assume your battery is low, at 12 volts. A MPPT takes that 17.6 volts at 7.4 amps and converts it down, so that what the battery gets is now 10.8 amps at 12 volts. Now you still have almost 130 watts, and everyone is happy.
Ideally, for 100% power conversion you would get around 11.3 amps at 11.5 volts, but you have to feed the battery a higher voltage to force the amps in. And this is a simplified explanation - in actual fact the output of the MPPT charge controller might vary continually to adjust for getting the maximum amps into the battery.
######
So, does that mean this type of charger can 'convert' my volts into amps? That doesn't sound right, but then again, this is new to me and anything more advanced than elementary basics is above my pay grade. But if that IS the case then it does sound like exactly what I need.
btw, I popped in at ebay and under Wind Charge Controller I found far more than one flavor of cheese and quickly became overwhelmed. I may even have uttered an expletive that rhymes with bit. Troy, if these turn out to be the way to go, I may need a tad o' guidance.
2.
"at best you are loosing a ton of charging capacity."
How do I make use of it, rather than reduce it? Can't bottle it. Will the above MPPT take my 40++ and be able to use all of it? I'd hate to be able to generate that much [and far more] and not be able to turn it into useful energy.
[again, the current primary goal is to crank a 300w motor rather than charge a battery]
3.
"use one battery bank to power devices and another battery bank to be charged. Swap out as needed."
Actually, at a certain point [read as - once there is enough $$$ raised] I intend/hope to introduce a computerized switcher that should do just that.
[again, may no longer be needed. Initially I needed the battery to kick start the motor and then switch to fans, but on my latest run the energy from the fans was sufficient to provide the kick.]
Thanks for all the input. Like I said, 'nother test tomorrow, but now you've got me thinking I'm doing overkill, but also excited that MPPT might get me right where I wish to be! And that, my kind sir, is EXACTLY why I invite you down to give this thing the evil eye.
Actually, it might not be a bad idea to pass some info 'off-forum'.
Michael